I had not driven any Transit RV previously. I was quickly and favorably impressed with the smoothness, ride, and power. The Orion comes with the basic 3.7 liter V6 gas engine, six speed transmission, and dual rear wheels. The motorhome version of the cab chassis is fairly basic with only a few upgrades, but is decently equipped. The upholstery and radio are base (no Bluetooth, navigation, or info options). You do get the big side mirrors and top GVWR rating.
The seats and seating position are really good. It is tight for moving to and from the seats to the rear of the coach, and you learn quickly what you hit your head on overhead, but it is doable for this 6'-1" person. The seat bases and tracks seem bigger than they need to be and rob maneuvering room, and I wish the parking brake was somewhere else out of the way. Forward and side visibility is superb, but I am going to see about a tint band for the top of the tall windshield because a lot of heat and sun comes in.
The Chevy Express and Ford E-series represent the old school of chassis for RV use. They are sturdy and capable but are really dated and obsolete. The newer van chassis like Transit, Promaster, and Sprinter are as different as a new Ford Explorer SUV is different from a 1960's station wagon. But would the smaller engine (V6 vs. big block V8 or V10) and lesser weight rating do the job? We will be be loading significant supplies, food, consumables (fuel, water, propane), personal stuff, and towing a Smart car. The rating numbers are OK, but will our Transit perform?
And here I will state my bias against a diesel powered unit for our needs. Diesel is obviously the right option--pretty much the only option for coaches of great weight (e.g., >10 tons) or trucks towing big trailers. In the weight and size class of the Orion (smaller Class Cs and most Class Bs), I say it becomes a matter of preference. I have owned a 5th wheel trailer and Ram diesel pickup, and that combination was just right. Then we had a 35' Class A with a 8.1L gas V8 engine that weighed more than the pickup and trailer together. It performed very well and was amazingly economical to maintain. I might have liked a diesel motorhome even more, but for the time we owned our Class A, I calculated that I would have never made up the difference in purchase cost from the difference in fuel mileage and maintenance. I believe the same holds true for our situation now. Given the premium for the diesel over the base gas engine in a Transit, I wouldn't expect to recover my investment in more years than I plan to be using it. Years out, resale difference wouldn't be significant, and any performance benefits would be largely underutilized. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. This Transit Orion is capable for our needs.
Monday, December 19, 2016
4 - Delivery! We got it!
On September 2, Scottsdale RV promised to order a 2017 Orion to be delivered to us in Parker, CO. We wondered and waited and got on with life. And nary a word was heard. Communication, or lack thereof, would become an issue.
Then, in the last week of September, an email from Scottsdale comes proclaiming that our Orion will arrive on Oct. 6. At 4 PM on Oct. 5, the doorbell rings and there is (let's call him George) along with our new Orion on the street in front. Miracle of miracles, it actually happened. George had driven pretty much non-stop after picking up the coach in Middlebury, Indiana, and then stopping to get it prepped in South Bend, 1,177 miles in fact. And George was in a hurry to get back to Scottsdale. But first to do business.
We gave the coach a once over. Keys? Check. Accessories and manuals? Think so. Everything work? Seems to. Paperwork? OK, what do we do with that? George doesn't know. I don't know. A call to Scottsdale. Nobody there who can tell us what I need to sign or keep or return. All we are sure of is George needs a check for the deal and necessary papers for the Lexor and he is quickly away with the Lexor. Bye, bye Lexor. You were a fine RV but a bit too small.
What a frenzy. What did we get? Now we have a leisurely few days to check out the Orion and that proves to be absolutely necessary since we don't have the benefit of a decent dealer walk-through. Having the experience from nine previous RVs provides fairly quick answers to most questions that arise. But, there are a few surprises as we proceed. I'll expand on impressions and experience in subsequent posts, but our first impressions are very favorable overall. We got a great RV and a sweet deal.
Then, in the last week of September, an email from Scottsdale comes proclaiming that our Orion will arrive on Oct. 6. At 4 PM on Oct. 5, the doorbell rings and there is (let's call him George) along with our new Orion on the street in front. Miracle of miracles, it actually happened. George had driven pretty much non-stop after picking up the coach in Middlebury, Indiana, and then stopping to get it prepped in South Bend, 1,177 miles in fact. And George was in a hurry to get back to Scottsdale. But first to do business.
We gave the coach a once over. Keys? Check. Accessories and manuals? Think so. Everything work? Seems to. Paperwork? OK, what do we do with that? George doesn't know. I don't know. A call to Scottsdale. Nobody there who can tell us what I need to sign or keep or return. All we are sure of is George needs a check for the deal and necessary papers for the Lexor and he is quickly away with the Lexor. Bye, bye Lexor. You were a fine RV but a bit too small.
What a frenzy. What did we get? Now we have a leisurely few days to check out the Orion and that proves to be absolutely necessary since we don't have the benefit of a decent dealer walk-through. Having the experience from nine previous RVs provides fairly quick answers to most questions that arise. But, there are a few surprises as we proceed. I'll expand on impressions and experience in subsequent posts, but our first impressions are very favorable overall. We got a great RV and a sweet deal.
3 - The Trade Fiasco
We were ready to deal on an Orion. In late August, we packed some essentials in the Lexor and drove from Parker to Scottsdale to arrive on a 104 deg. Wednesday afternoon. At the dealer, we discovered right away that the Orion we expected to get was in a fairly severe state of disassembly. In the few days we took to get there, the dealer had stripped all the panel covering and trim off the drop-down bed to expedite the repair of another Orion he had just sold. The salesman said not to worry, the replacement parts were on the way and the unit would be back together and ready by 10 AM Friday. That was the first strike.
Given the heat and lack of supplies, we checked into a motel for two nights instead of being on the road back to CO in a new RV. Besides the extra expense for food and board, it cost me another $350 because my wife thought it would be better to shop than lay around. While having a late breakfast on Friday morning, the salesman called to ask if we could delay coming in until after noon as they "weren't quite done" with the restoration. Strike two.
I should interject here that the Scottsdale dealer also had a new 24TB (twin couch/bed) model in stock. These had recently been added by Coachmen and we were interested. Having the couches serve as beds means no drop-down bed. That gives more head room as well as makes the coach seem a bit larger, and the forward skylight and a/c vents are always exposed. But we really didn't like it as well as the RB model. The couches were kind of hard and not all that comfortable. Because of their width to make a decent bed, they had huge back bolsters so the couch was sit-able. But then, where to store the bolsters every night? There was no real dining table. And dual use of the couches meant having to make up beds every night. That is something we accepted in a class B but didn't want for our next RV.
We got back to the lot after noon on Friday. A service person met us and said they were still working on the Orion. He proceeded to evaluate our Lexor and it seemed we might be ready to effect the trade. But then an hour of waiting became two. I asked to take another look at what was going on and it was not pretty. The bed was only half recovered and it looked like they were making pieces to fit from blank sheets of material. It was apparent that the finished bed was not going to look anything like stock. The whole unit was dirty from the work. It was going to be days if not weeks and a whole new approach to get that coach back to a saleable product. Strike three, and we were upset.
The manager was genuinely sorry that they had cannibalized the RV we were expecting to buy and that we had made the trip with no happy outcome. To his credit, he promised to order a new 2017 Orion for us and have it direct delivered to our home in CO, and, at the same trade deal, we would get a '17 instead of the '16 that didn't work out.
Given that bit of hope, we returned home in the Lexor to see if it really would happen.
Given the heat and lack of supplies, we checked into a motel for two nights instead of being on the road back to CO in a new RV. Besides the extra expense for food and board, it cost me another $350 because my wife thought it would be better to shop than lay around. While having a late breakfast on Friday morning, the salesman called to ask if we could delay coming in until after noon as they "weren't quite done" with the restoration. Strike two.
I should interject here that the Scottsdale dealer also had a new 24TB (twin couch/bed) model in stock. These had recently been added by Coachmen and we were interested. Having the couches serve as beds means no drop-down bed. That gives more head room as well as makes the coach seem a bit larger, and the forward skylight and a/c vents are always exposed. But we really didn't like it as well as the RB model. The couches were kind of hard and not all that comfortable. Because of their width to make a decent bed, they had huge back bolsters so the couch was sit-able. But then, where to store the bolsters every night? There was no real dining table. And dual use of the couches meant having to make up beds every night. That is something we accepted in a class B but didn't want for our next RV.
We got back to the lot after noon on Friday. A service person met us and said they were still working on the Orion. He proceeded to evaluate our Lexor and it seemed we might be ready to effect the trade. But then an hour of waiting became two. I asked to take another look at what was going on and it was not pretty. The bed was only half recovered and it looked like they were making pieces to fit from blank sheets of material. It was apparent that the finished bed was not going to look anything like stock. The whole unit was dirty from the work. It was going to be days if not weeks and a whole new approach to get that coach back to a saleable product. Strike three, and we were upset.
The manager was genuinely sorry that they had cannibalized the RV we were expecting to buy and that we had made the trip with no happy outcome. To his credit, he promised to order a new 2017 Orion for us and have it direct delivered to our home in CO, and, at the same trade deal, we would get a '17 instead of the '16 that didn't work out.
Given that bit of hope, we returned home in the Lexor to see if it really would happen.
Saturday, December 17, 2016
2 - Dealing for an Orion
There are lots of Coachmen dealers, but not a lot of Orion dealers. I found Orion sale listings in Michigan, Nebraska, Texas, Montana, Nevada, California. The only dealers convenient to us were in Scottsdale, AZ, and Colorado Springs, CO. In early May, 2016, we decided to look at a 24RB model that the Scottsdale dealer had on our migration from our Yuma winter home back to our Colorado home. The Orion looked good to us, but the salesman declared it would not be capable of towing our Smart ForTwo car, which was absolutely necessary. So we left discouraged and having to rethink our needs.
A couple of weeks later, the Scottsdale manager emailed me to say the salesman was wrong. Despite the limited use warning label by the hitch, he said the hitch was rated up to tow 3,000 pounds as long as we did not exceed the Transit gross combined weight limit and 300 lb. hitch weight. Since our Smart is less than 1,900 lb. loaded, it seemed we would be OK to pursue a Transit Orion. I expect the RV manufacturers rate things with an abundance of caution against liability from people doing stupid things.
So we looked to the Colorado Springs dealer. They only had a Promaster Orion in stock but, being almost identical in layout, we inspected it closely to see if it was really right for us. When we tried to get specific with the salesman, who was also the dealership owner, we were left with the impression that (1) he was going to do things his way, (2) he was in no hurry to order a new Orion since he had one to sell, (3) his price was the price, (4) he would reluctantly consider our trade but indicated it wasn't worth much.
Being in no particular hurry, we decided to market our Lexor ourselves while enjoying some summer camping and travel in it. By August, 2016, we had no reasonable offers for the Lexor. The Scottsdale dealer contacted us to say they had a Transit Orion and would trade if we were still in the market. I said we were; what would a trade look like? He gave a trade figure that was not bad. I countered with what I wanted and he accepted. With the sales tax saved on a trade vs. a full retail purchase, and the price Scottsdale had on the Orion ($3k less than CO Springs), we felt it was a good deal.
So, near the end of August, we were ready to do the deal.
A couple of weeks later, the Scottsdale manager emailed me to say the salesman was wrong. Despite the limited use warning label by the hitch, he said the hitch was rated up to tow 3,000 pounds as long as we did not exceed the Transit gross combined weight limit and 300 lb. hitch weight. Since our Smart is less than 1,900 lb. loaded, it seemed we would be OK to pursue a Transit Orion. I expect the RV manufacturers rate things with an abundance of caution against liability from people doing stupid things.
So we looked to the Colorado Springs dealer. They only had a Promaster Orion in stock but, being almost identical in layout, we inspected it closely to see if it was really right for us. When we tried to get specific with the salesman, who was also the dealership owner, we were left with the impression that (1) he was going to do things his way, (2) he was in no hurry to order a new Orion since he had one to sell, (3) his price was the price, (4) he would reluctantly consider our trade but indicated it wasn't worth much.
Being in no particular hurry, we decided to market our Lexor ourselves while enjoying some summer camping and travel in it. By August, 2016, we had no reasonable offers for the Lexor. The Scottsdale dealer contacted us to say they had a Transit Orion and would trade if we were still in the market. I said we were; what would a trade look like? He gave a trade figure that was not bad. I countered with what I wanted and he accepted. With the sales tax saved on a trade vs. a full retail purchase, and the price Scottsdale had on the Orion ($3k less than CO Springs), we felt it was a good deal.
So, near the end of August, we were ready to do the deal.
1 - Choosing the Orion
As experienced RV owners (nine previous RVs over 40 years), my wife and I pretty much know what we want. But when we downsized from a 35' Class A motorhome to a 19' Class B van, we realized that we were compromised in storage space, bathroom, and a convenient bed setup. The Pleasure Way Lexor based on the Chevy Express van was comfortable enough, high quality, and fairly economical overall. But we found we had to tow a small trailer or our Smart car to handle the extra stuff we really wanted with us. So after traveling and camping in the Lexor for two years, we decided to upsize.
I had some minimal preferences: motorized, not a towable; gas-powered (ruled out Sprinter units); a dry bath; a bed that could be left made up with least impact on living space; decent kitchen and refrigerator space; not much bigger than the larger Class Bs (24'). We didn't want another Class A and didn't care for the conventional Cs either (Ford E chassis or Chevy van chassis). The new models built on the Dodge Promaster chassis caught our eye for size and features, and especially the ones with a drop-down bed. We looked at Rev, Orion, and Viva. But, considering the load and towing capacity of the Promaster units, I decided there just wasn't enough margin. Then the manufacturers started using the Ford Transit chassis which has dual rear wheels and significantly more load capacity. We both felt the Transit was more comfortable up front as well.
After looking at several of the available new Transit Class C units, the Orion again became our favorite. So in May, 2016, we began the acquisition process.
I had some minimal preferences: motorized, not a towable; gas-powered (ruled out Sprinter units); a dry bath; a bed that could be left made up with least impact on living space; decent kitchen and refrigerator space; not much bigger than the larger Class Bs (24'). We didn't want another Class A and didn't care for the conventional Cs either (Ford E chassis or Chevy van chassis). The new models built on the Dodge Promaster chassis caught our eye for size and features, and especially the ones with a drop-down bed. We looked at Rev, Orion, and Viva. But, considering the load and towing capacity of the Promaster units, I decided there just wasn't enough margin. Then the manufacturers started using the Ford Transit chassis which has dual rear wheels and significantly more load capacity. We both felt the Transit was more comfortable up front as well.
After looking at several of the available new Transit Class C units, the Orion again became our favorite. So in May, 2016, we began the acquisition process.
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